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From: owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com (Traveller-digest)
To: traveller-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
Subject: Traveller-digest V1996 #719
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, December 5 1996     Volume 1996 : Number 719



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Norris to the rescue! Part 2.
RE: Off topic 
RE: Rebellion: Diplomacy, Democracy and the New World Order (Long)
Re: "Basic Traveller"
RE: Rebellion: Diplomacy, Democracy and the New World Order (Long)
off topic:  Brzk
Landing ships.
Re: Rebellion: Diplomacy, Democracy and the New World Order (Long)
Re: Off topic
Re: Alan's back!
Starships: Available Yet?
Re: Alan's back!
Re: off topic:  Brzk
punishment and Zaleucus
Rebelion/Dulinor
XMail
Re: Rebelion/Dulinor
Re: Emigration in Traveller
Re: Nuclear Dampers
Re: Rebellion
Re: Rebellion
Re: Landing ships.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:30:41 -0500
From: HDHale@aol.com
Subject: Re: Norris to the rescue! Part 2.

From: Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:

>Your're wrong there, Harold. The worst case scenario is that the 
>attempt to restore the Imperium provokes the Zhodani into taking 
>over the Domain of Deneb. 

   Which if you read the entirety of my originial post is what I postulate
would happen.  I further stated, however, that this absorption by the
Zhodanis would be voluntary on the part of Norris, particularly if the
Dominion of Deneb were faced with the prospect of being destroyed by the
Aslan and the Vargr.  Think of it as the lesser of two evils.

>then the Aslans and the Vargr can be dealt with by the reserve 
>fleets while the regular forces goes a-battling.

   The Imperial reserve fleets in the region are no where near powerful
enough in this era to hold off simultaneous attacks by the Aslan and Vargr.
 The combined Imperial forces present (both frontline and reserve fleets)
were only powerful enough to keep the OutWorld Coalition in check until the
massive Cooridor Fleet could arrive and save day like the cavalry riding in
to save the town in the old American Westerns.  With the Cooridor Fleet off
fighting Dulinor for Lucan, and the frontline fleets off on a fool's errand
trying to rescue Strephon (as proposed), you'd see a repeat of the blitzkrieg
the Solomani pulled in the Old Expanses early in the war.

>Whether they would do any good at all is quite another matter. I 
>think you'd need at least three factions cooperating before they'd 
>have a chance. 

   As the storyline was written, this simply wasn't going to happen.

>If Strephon had started out by going to see first Brzk and then Margaret 
>personally and convinced them that he was genuine, then gone to the Vilani
>and sent for Norris' forces then he might have been able to pull it off.

   Remember, the only people who know Strephon is really Strephon is Strephon
and his closest advisors.  Pretty much everyone else outside of Strephon's
territory is convinced that he is a fraud.  It is unlikely that anyone would
meet with him, even if he could manage the journey.

   Actually Strephon's best bet would have been to surrender himself to the
Solomani.  By promising them territory, and rallying his supporters to the
Solomani banner (not to mention his ability to act as a neutral arbitrator
keeping the Solomani from serious infighting), he just might have been able
to pull off an upset.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:02:53 -0500 (EST)
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
Subject: RE: Off topic 

In Reply to Your Message of Wed, 04 Dec 1996 20: 37:19 GMT
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 00:02:53 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@brahms.udel.edu>

: How does everyone pronounce the Vargr Archduke Brzk's name
: 
: I pronounce it Bar-Zack
: 

I pronounce Ber-zk.  If you roll it off your tongue quickly enough, it
almost sounds like you're saying berserk.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:31:27 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <kc@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Rebellion: Diplomacy, Democracy and the New World Order (Long)

Tim Peter wrote:

>> In some ways, the best historical example to the Imperium may be the
>>  British Empire. Remember, several parts of it were months away from
>London.
>>

>Months, yes.  Years?  Not so much.  I don't object to, or disagree with, 
the
>plausability of a lag of six months or so, but beyond that, government 
gets
>fairly hard to administer.  At least not without people in positions of
>significant authority along the way.


Why? Really, what is the substantial difference in 6 months versus 24 
months?

>Exactly my point.  Strephon probably told Norris, "Don't let the Aslan run
>all over the place."  After that it was up to Norris to see that he 
followed
>that directive as best as he saw fit.  And Norris probably told the Duke 
of
>the Trin's Veil subsector, "Hey, Strephon wants us to do something about 
the
>Aslans.  Maybe you should try to negotiate something with them. If they 
start
>shooting, shoot back.  Otherwise, try not to make 'em too mad."  The
>subsector duke, meanwhile, must have a tremendous amount of authority to
>negotiate treaties, veto agreements, and call in "the big stick," when
>necessary, since Norris won't find out about it for a couple of months (at
>best.)

Okay, we're completely agreed here. Of course, I don't think Strephon would 
have to tell anyone "Don't let the Aslan run all over the place." I think 
that would be assumed. And as well, if Strephon decides that Norris or 
anyone doesn't follow any of his objectives as well as he would like, 
they're gone.

>  This, BTW, is the crux of my problem with the Rebellion.  The
>subsector dukes and admirals could not have been slouches at running the
>show, given the latitude they must have enjoyed pre-Rebellion.  Why all of 
a
>sudden did they automatically fall in line when this wet-behind-the-ears
>little jerk we all know and despise as Lucan started barking out orders 
from
>Capital?  'Cause it came from the Iridium Throne?!?  I bet most military 
and
>political leaders throughout the Imperium had a pretty good feel for which
>orders required more adherence after years of dealing with the Imperial
>bureaucracy.  Hell, Dukes Craig and Norris knew enough to take charge, and
>had the resources to make it work, at least for a while.

Allright, here's where I disagree with you. You are comparing two different 
situations. Lucan told the various fleets "Get your butts over here to 
fight Dulinor". This is the same kind of strategic-level order as "Don't 
let the Aslan run all over the place". He doesn't tell them exactly when to 
get to Core, or what route to take, or what meal to surve for lunch. Thats 
for  the Fleet Admirals, or the Ships Cooks to decide.

The Imperium would have to grant a great deal of latitude in how to 
implement orders, some latitude in how to interpret them, and absolutely no 
latitude on whether to follow them or not.

And it seems like quite a few Imperial political leaders did decide to 
disregard orders. The Vilani, Craig, Brzk and Norris represent a good 
portion of the Imperial sector leadership. But you can't expect every 
single leader to disregard the man sitting on the Iridium Throne.

Don't discount "Cuz  it came from the Iridium Throne". Lucan had the power 
of tradition going for him. For 1100 years, when an order came from the 
throne, people jumped. Thats why so many Imperial subjects followed Lucan, 
even despite his increasing instability.

>  So, while I agree
>with the analogy to the UK to a degree, the sheer size of the Imperium, 
and
>the travel times associated wit that size, relative to the UK just doesn't
>equate.  If it took a year and a half for messages to get from London to
>India, the kingdom would not have lasted as long as it did.  If anyone 
knows
>the true travel times at the time of the British Empire, I would be 
curious
>to know what they were.  I doubt they were as long as we've come to accept 
in
>the Imperium.

As I said, I'm sure the travel times are longer in the Imperium. However, I 
still can't see the dividing line that makes 6 months viable, but not 24. 
It would just take a little longer, thats all.

K.C. Komosky
kc@mb.sympatico.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:15:07 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: "Basic Traveller"

>The question comes when they list a fourth version: "Basic Traveller" -
>to what are they referring?  Which version of the Traveller rules was
>"Basic Traveler?"

I can answer this one 100%.  In my copy of the little box there is a one
page card that describes the various sets, supplements, books, etc.  The
little box is Basic Traveller.  Here is the description from the card.

301. Basic Traveller is a boxed set containing Book 1, Characters and
Combat, Book 2, Starships, and Book 3, Worlds and Adventures.  These three
books are the basis for all of Traveller and are essential.  Each book is
48 pages.  Boxed set.

Now my question is did anything come with Starter Traveller besides the two
books?  Also I've got the first printing, and it has simple black covers,
like the little books.  Was there also a version with picture covers?  Did
it come in any kind of box or anything?  I found them a couple years ago
sold separatly in a used games box at a store, and have been wondering.

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast          |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Mac Programmer            |
+----------------------------------+---------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing   |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                      |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:03:42 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <sudet@well.com>
Subject: RE: Rebellion: Diplomacy, Democracy and the New World Order (Long)

>From: "K.C. Komosky" <kc@mb.sympatico.ca>

>Oh, how soon we forget. Humanity certainly hasn't had instantaneous
>communications for all that long.

>In some ways, the best historical example to the Imperium may be the
>British Empire. Remember, several parts of it were months away from London.

>While I'm a history buff, I haven't studied in any exacting detail. But my
>impression is that yes, local governors/military generals/ ambassadors had
>some broad outlines of policy set by London, but other than that were given
>a great deal of latitude.

I have studied it in some detail.  The early European imperial period is not a bad model 
for this particular Traveller phenomenon.  Local governors -- whether conquistadores in 
South and Central America or colonial governors or military garrisons in North America, 
India, or Indochina -- often received detailed instructions that meant nothing in the 
field.  They had a lot of practical power, and were generally able to justify whatever 
they actually did -- after all, they were the ones on the scene.  

The good old days wound down as communication speeded up.  Sailing ships carrying 
the mail were replaced by steam, but then the telegraph allowed orders and reports and, 
more important, news articles, to travel instantaneously from remote regions.  Local 
colonial authorities became ever more subject to direct supervision.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:06:56 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <sudet@well.com>
Subject: off topic:  Brzk

>From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
>How does everyone pronounce the Vargr Archduke Brzk's name
>I pronounce it Bar-Zack

No, my Vargr-Galanglic dictionary and audio chip clearly indicate "bre 
ZOOK", where the "e" is the unvoiced schwa, and zook is pronounced like 
book.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:15:55 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <sudet@well.com>
Subject: Landing ships.

>From: "David P. Summers" <DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov>

>However, if you look at other material (adventures, etc.) you
>see that one is often expected to land a ship and then use an
>auxilary vessel to get around and the ISS has gone to the

My take on it is that it depends.  When I first started playing Traveller, I thought, 
gee, why wouldn't you just take your type-S scout directly to where the action is -- you 
can sleep aboard, you've got bigger weapons than you can carry in the air/raft, etc.  
Surely this is just a plot device to get the PCs into more vulnerable positions.

Later, I started to see more gray areas.  A highly populated world, for example, 
might already have enough air traffic that it wouldn't want space craft in the traffic 
patterns, and would also have concerns about safety and pollution from offworld 
vehicles.  Similarly, a rich world's environmental concerns would keep offworld ships at 
the starport.  

In addition, the landing pads of ships must put a lot of weight on a very small area -- 
enough that a ship might get stuck if it set down on open ground (hence the bedrock for 
E starports).  There is also a lot of routine maintenance to do on ships, and, as long a 
port is available at which to do it, it should be done.  

Finally, it makes a great plot device to get PCs out of their shells and into the 
action.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 02:39:22 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rebellion: Diplomacy, Democracy and the New World Order (Long)

In a message dated 96-12-05 00:35:10 EST, K.C. Komosky wrote:

> I'm sure the travel times are longer in the Imperium. However, I 
>  still can't see the dividing line that makes 6 months viable, but not 24. 
>  It would just take a little longer, thats all.
>  


Have you ever tried to run a business (let alone a government) with offices
scattered around the globe with today's technology?  Despite the ads run by
Microsoft, IBM, and Lotus, it ain't as easy as they make it seem.
 Information is usually time-sensitive.  A report from a "branch office"
indicating that the Zhodani have begun troop movements into the area of your
border may mean they are getting ready to attack, or it may simply be a
staging exercise.  Ask Jeff Kazmierski (who I believe is an intelligence
analyst) what impact data from 12-18 months ago would have on an analysis of
a tactical situation such as this.  My answer is none, since the tactical
situation either escalated into warfare nine months ago, or was simply an
exercise and went away all by itself.  One of the biggest problems with the
comparison to the British Empire is the speed of travel.  Since troops
couldn't mass in one place without it taking a bit of time for them to get
there, the BE's planners had a brief period of time to assess the situation
and plan their response.  If the Zhodani attacked Jewell, a courier would
jump out-system to the nearest naval base.  There the admirals and commodores
would begin preparing for a counterattack and alert other units in the
(general) area as to what was up.  Governments are hard to administer over a
greater area because of the limitation of the speed of communication.  Sure,
if there were a subsector-wide famine which threatened to wipe out half of
that subsectors population, the Imperium has the resources to throw at it to
prevent it.  But by the time those resources arrive ten, twelve months later,
it might be too late.  The "little longer" you refer to may be too long in
many circumstances.  The sector and the domain level governments must provide
many of the solutions, and if they can do that, why do they need the
Imperium?  And once your citizens start thinking that way, your government is
history.


Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:18:38 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic

On  4 Dec 96 at 20:37, Mused wrote:

> How does everyone pronounce the Vargr Archduke Brzk's name
> 
> I pronounce it Bar-Zack

The vargr have many different languages, so it could theoretically be 
pronounced a number of different ways based on Brzk's culture.

There's a Gvegh (Gu  veck) pronounciation guide in the Vargr Alien 
Module.  Since Gvegh, or some form of it, is spoken by 60% of the 
Vargr encountered in the Spinward Marches and Gvurrdon sector, I'd 
hazard a guess that Brzk is pronounced:

Berzsk

I've always played vargr language like it is hard for humans to 
nunciate (because it is).  I see (or, rather, hear) thier words as 
different forms of growls, grunts, yelps, whines, and so forth--like 
it came from a dog.

Given this, I see Brzk as a quick bark like noise, with a heavy 
accent on the "B".  A human could emulate it by attempting a cough, 
or a caught sneeze.

Berzsk! 

Bless you.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:18:39 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Alan's back!

 
> Come on. This might be a funny idea, but don't forget that human DO make 
> mistakes.... (and some aliens may do too)
> Don't punish anybody for things, that happend accidentially.

I was making a joke, Harald.  That's why I put the smiley face after 
the suggestion.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:27:09 +1100
From: "Phillip McGregor" <aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au>
Subject: Starships: Available Yet?

Hi, has anyone received the Starships book (supposedly available from
November 18)? Is there a delay on it? I haven't seen any glad little cries
on the group!

Phil McGregor
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@.curie.dialix.oz.au
Have Game Designer, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 09:33:50 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Re: Alan's back!

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> I was making a joke, Harald.  That's why I put the smiley face after
> the suggestion.
> 

That's why I didn't want to flame. I found it quite funny though. But I 
fancy what happens, if some people are taking this like
"Oh boy! What a funny idea. I'll do that!" ;-)

Imagine Alan's face. Hah, maybe the idea isn't that bad ... ;-)

Cya!
Buddy
- -- 
# Disclaimer: All opinions stated are only MY OWN.
# Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at 
# ADV - Anwendungsentwicklung
# Graphisch Technischer Bereich

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 09:36:22 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Re: off topic:  Brzk

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> >From: Mused <marz@hotstar.net>
> >How does everyone pronounce the Vargr Archduke Brzk's name
> >I pronounce it Bar-Zack
> 
> No, my Vargr-Galanglic dictionary and audio chip clearly indicate "bre
> ZOOK", where the "e" is the unvoiced schwa, and zook is pronounced like
> book.
> 

As the german language (as well spoken in Austria with quite an accent 
sometimes...) seems like a throat illness to many non german speakers, I 
have no trouble to speak it like it's written. :-)

CyA
Buddy

- -- 
# Disclaimer: All opinions stated are only MY OWN.
# Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at 
# ADV - Anwendungsentwicklung
# Graphisch Technischer Bereich

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Dec 96 09:32:49 -0800
From: Timothy Collinson <tc@library.solent.ac.uk>
Subject: punishment and Zaleucus

I wrote:
>> I love the idea but wouldn't that count as 'cruel and ususual'
>> punishment?

Leonard replies:

>I could refer you to the section in "Starship Troopers" where "cruel

I'll have to look that up.  Can you give me a clue roughly where to look?

>and unusual punishment" is discussed. Or I could just point out that
>the Constitution of the United States of America is a historical

I wasn't particularly thinking of the Constitution, besides I think that 
we have a similar thing over here.  I was simply assuming that the 
Imperium *might* have something like it.  I admit the assumption - 
particularly given the nature of the Imperial 'government' was possibly a 
bit optimisitic.


>document of about as much interest as Hammurabi's Laws.

Actually, for some of us, these two *are* of "as much interest".  (And 
before I'm told off for not caring about the US Constitution, I mean just 
the opposite.  I'm fascinated by both [1].  I even have a copy of the 
Magna Carta kicking around my hard drive and would be interested in 
*anything* anyone can tell me about Zaleucus (an ancient Greek 
king/lawmaker if my limited info is correct).

Did he really have his own eye gouged out because the punishment he'd 
decreed for adultery was having both eyes put out and when his son was 
caught at it, to avoid blinding him but to fulfil the law, he put out one 
of his son's eyes and one of his own?

Can anyone provide a source for this story?

Hmmm, perhaps I should rewrite the above sentence.  Ah, what the heck, 
you guys are bright enough..!

tc
[1]  Well, I *would* be fascinated by the latter if I could see a copy.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:20:45 -0900
From: aramis@lunatic.asylumbbs.com (William F. Hostman)
Subject: Rebelion/Dulinor

>Just a little question - does everyone here really hate Dulinor? I was
>always kind-of pulling for him in the Rebellion. Succession by
>Assassination is perfectly valid in the Imperium after all.
>
Personally, I think Dulinor was the best choice for the new emperor; one
small problem, though, is that he failed. Strephon was really the REAL
strephon [Survival Margin], and strephon must now kill dulinor as a
traitor. Dulinor is a traitor not because he tried, but because he failed
to kill the actual strephon.

- -Wil
(whose favorite ruleset is Mega, and whose favorite setting is 1050-1115)

William F. Hostman
Aramis@asylumbbs.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:20:48 -0900
From: aramis@lunatic.asylumbbs.com (William F. Hostman)
Subject: XMail

>How much does it cost to send a message, x-boat or sub. merchant?  Did GDW/IG
>ever put out any articles on this?  Is it by the parsec, by the word, a
>little o' both?

Data or Image, one page: Cr10 per page per hop.
 I've seen this in several places. It works well in an are you have X-Boat
Routes for. Count J-2 to a route, then each world along the route until you
reach nearest point, then back to J-2. Multiply the number of hops by 9
days to get travel time of message.

BTW, *I* consider both the data and Image to be either 15cm x 25cm at 2400
DPI B&W/Grey or 15x25cm 600DPI Color (CMYK). They are scanned images,
normally. I do allow "Puretext" at 1cr/page/hop typed courier 10pt,
single-spaced RTF, delivered only to a datadrop or "Will Pick Up", no
on-world delivery.


William F. Hostman
Aramis@asylumbbs.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 01:52:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rebelion/Dulinor

    Reading all this Rebellion stuff has got me wondering something, which may
be one of the Questions Best Left Unasked:  if things had gone differently in
the Real World (that is, earth c. 1990), what would have happened to the
MegaTraveller/ Rebellion setting?  I find it hard to believe that Marc Miller,
Joe Fugate, and all the rest were just making it all up as they went along, so
they must have had some idea for how things were eventually going to turn out. 
Does anyone (including, if he's reading this and feels like answering, Marc
Miller himself) have any idea what that might have been?
     And, in a similar vein, how much of what we learned in the post-Miller
supplements (Hard Times, Arrival: Vengeance, Survival Margin) had been
previously established an how much was created after MM left?  He stated a
month or so back that he didn't know what Project Longbow or the Empress Wave
were, so obviously those fall into the latter category.  But what about, for
instance, the identity of the "real" Strephon?

Trent Smith
  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:29:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Emigration in Traveller

In mail you write:

> Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

>> The problem is that the economics of "exporting" people are such that they
>> can't possible relieve population pressure unless the people are sent to a
>> world fairly close to the home world.
>
> <fascinating deletia containing feasability calculations>
>
> In other words, there's a big difference between the historical
> Terran experience in transporting colonists (willing or not) -- that
> being the difference between sea transportation (relatively cheap in
> historical times) and space transportation (definitely uncheap in
> Trav).

Nope. If you check, you'll find that colonization efforts have *never*
reduced the population of the colonizing nation. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:18:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Nuclear Dampers

In mail you write:

> I *love* this idea, it clears up all sorts of possible problems.  However,
> it has one big problem, it is of limited usefulness.  This type of ND
> works great against fission warheads.  However, by TL 12 I would expect
> there to also be various types of direct fusion warheads which don't
> require a fission trigger.  Laser pumped fusion, some type of *very*
> high-powered, short-term magnetic pinch...  A weak force ND would (as I
> understand it with my decade-old knowledge of physics) have no effect on
> such warheads. 
>
> So, is there any way to save the weak force damper other than (to me)
> unrealistic rulings that non-fission pumped fusion warheads are
> impossible. 

Such rulings *aren't* "unrealistic". Any such setup could be used to
make smaller "pulsed fusion" powerplants. So you can't build a
non-fission triggered fusion device that is *smaller* than a fusion
powerplant of fairly high output.

This make non-fission triggering useless for missiles, as you can't
build them small enough. You could still build them for special uses,
but they'd be more like a ship's boat than a missile.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:52:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rebellion

In mail you write:

> I have another: The Imperium really is an organization of _independently
> governed_ worlds. Does "democratic reform" on the Imperium's level
> really affect local world governments? What's the point of world UPP's
> otherwise? The Imperium just governs the "space between the worlds"
> n'est-ce pas?
>
> Some worlds have UPP's which indicate a local democratic government,
> others are oppressive. If I were an interstellar traveller, I'd want the
> starports to be ruled rather autocratically, with consistant laws and
> regulations, to ensure my safety and avoid misunderstandings.

This would also explain why "extrality" for the starports evolved.
There have been cases of people being arrested at airports for carrying
items that are legal at both the place they left and at their
destination. It's just that the airline routing made them change planes
at a location where they were unaware that they were illegal.

I figure that at some point, theres going to be trouble about this. And
by the time you get to something like Traveller style interstellar travel.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:01:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rebellion

In mail, aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:

> 1. How do you get 11,000 worlds to agree on how to implement it? (Just 
> look at the problems the EU has, and there's only 15? of them!)

By telling them "This is how it's going to be..." with a fleet in
orbit. :-)

> 2. Since most of the worlds are non-democratic, how are they going to 
> elect a representative?

Representative selection would have to be local option. Most
non-democracies would appoint someone. Heck, given that local autonomy
is pretty much guaranteed, I'd bet that most *democracies* would treat
it as an appointive position. 

> 3. With a travel time from frontier to Capital of >1yr, just how 
> representative is it going to be?

How representative is the US Congress? Not terribly. As the number of
people represented goes up, the degree to which any *real*
representation can take place goes down.

Frankly, I expect that even the Moot, as described in existing
materials, is unworkable. 

What I'd expect to be workable would be a multi-level setup. Subsector
to sector sized groupings of planets to deal with matters affecting
their area. Such regions would be what had Imperial level
representation.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:58:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Landing ships.

In mail you write:

> If you look at the description of ships it seems as if they should
> be able to land at any reasonably level surface (say a nice open
> meadow).
>
> However, if you look at other material (adventures, etc.) you
> see that one is often expected to land a ship and then use an
> auxilary vessel to get around and the ISS has gone to the
> trouble of clearing off at least a patch of bed rock on every
> system in the Spinward Marches.

No, the "patches of bedrock" (easier to find than you might think!) are
already there.

> Now I have decided that the point is a) it takes a while to
> properly get a ship ready for takeoff and b) since they
> weigh a "lot" even grass over hard packed dirt can be
> assumed to be sufficient to safely support a ship.
>
> I was just wondering what other people's takes on this
> were?

My take (back when CT came out) was that you had to have this as the
fusion drive exhaust made too much of a mess otherwise.

But for all you "reactionless thruster" types, figure out what the ship
weighs. Then figure out how big those landing pads, or skids, or
whatever are. Divide the weight by the contact area, and you get the
ground pressure. 

It doesn't take all that much pressure to break things. Things like
animal burrows can be *really* bad news. Underground water flows can
undermine even "hard packed" ground. 

BTW, if grass grows there, it *isn't* "hard packed". *Especially* if
it's "natural" growth, as opposed to a lawn. You could drive a car over
it, but try a heavily loaded truck and watch the fun.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #719
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